Lua, game state and game loop

Question

1. Call main.lua script at each game loop iteration - is it good or bad design? How does it affect on the performance (relatively)?

2. Maintain game state fro

Answer 1

Most of the performance will be lost through the binding between Lua and C++. A function call will actually need to be wrapped, and re-wrapped, and like that a couple of time usually. Pure Lua or pure C++ code is usually faster than mixed code (for small operations).

Having said that, I personally didn't see any strong performance hit running a Lua script every frame.

Usually scripting is good at high level. Lua has been used in famous games for the Bots (Quake 3) and for the User Interface (World of Warcraft). Used at high level Lua micro-threads come handy: The coroutines can save a lot (compared to real threads). For example to run some Lua code only once in a while.

Answer 2

I am using Lua for the first time in a game I've been working on. The C++ side of my application actually holds pointers to instances of each game state. Some of the game states are implemented in C++ and some are implemented in Lua (such as the "game play" state).

The update and main application loop live on the C++ side of things. I have exposed functions that allow the Lua VM to add new game states to the application at runtime.

I have not yet had any problems with slowness, even running on hardware with limited resources (Atom processor with integrated video). Lua functions are called every frame. The most expensive (in terms of time) operation in my application is rendering.

The ability to create new states completely in Lua was one of the best decisions I made on the project, since it allows me to freely add portions of the game without recompiling the whole thing.

Edit: I'm using Luabind, which I have read performs slower in general than other binding frameworks and of course the Lua C API.

Answer 3

I'd like to throw in my two cents since I strongly believe that there's some incorrect advice being given here. For context, I am using Lua in a large game that involves both intensive 3D rendering as well as intensive game logic simulation. I've become more familiar than I'd have liked to with Lua and performance...

Note that I'm going to talk specifically about LuaJIT, because you're going to want to use LuaJIT. It's plug-and-play, really, so if you can embed Lua you can embed LuaJIT. You'll want it, if not for the extra speed, then for the automagic foreign function interface module (require 'ffi') that will allow you to call your native code directly from Lua without ever having to touch the Lua C API (95%+ of cases).

1. It's perfectly fine to call Lua at 60hz (I call it at 90hz in VR..). The catch is that you are going to have to be careful to do it correctly. As someone else mentioned, it's critical that you load the script only once. You can then use the C API to get access to functions you defined in that script, or to run the script itself as a function. I recommend the former: for a relatively simple game, you can get by with defining functions like onUpdate (dt), onRender (), onKeyPressed (key), onMouseMoved (dx, dy), etc. You can call these at the appropriate time from your main loop in C++. Alternatively, you can actually have your entire main loop be in Lua, and instead invoke your C++ code for performance-critical routines (I do that). This is especially easy to do with the LuaJIT FFI.

2. This is the really hard question. It will depend on your needs. Can you quite easily hammer down the game state? Great, put it C++-side and access from LuaJIT FFI. Not sure what all will be in the game state / like to be able to prototype quickly? Nothing wrong with keeping it in Lua. That is, until you start talking about a complex game with 1000s of objects, each containing non-trivial state. In this case, hybrid is the way to go, but figuring out exactly how to split state between C++ and Lua, and how to martial said state between the two (especially in perf-critical routines) is something of an art. Let me know if you come up with a bulletproof technique :) As with everything else, the general rule of thumb is: data that goes through performance-critical pathways needs to be on the native side. For example, if your entities have positions and velocities that you update each frame, and you have thousands of said entities, you need to do this in C++. However, you can get away with layering an 'inventory' on top of these entities using Lua (an inventory doesn't need a per-frame update).

Now, a couple more notes I'd like to throw out both as general FYIs and in response to some of the other answers.

1. Event-based approaches are, in general, critical to the performance of any game, but that goes doubly for systems written in Lua. I said it's perfectly fine to call Lua @ 60hz. But it's not perfectly fine to be running tight loops over lots of game objects each frame in said Lua. You might get away with wastefully calling update() on everything in the universe in C++ (though you shouldn't), but doing so in Lua will start eating up those precious milliseconds far too quickly. Instead, as others have mentioned, you need to be thinking of Lua logic as 'reactive' -- usually, this means handling an event. For example, don't check that one entity is in range of another each frame in Lua (I mean, this is fine for one entity, but in general when you're scaling up your game you need to not think like this). Instead, tell your C++ engine to notify you when the two entities get within a certain distance of one another. In this way, Lua becomes the high-level controller of game logic, dispatching high-level commands and responding to high-level events, not carrying out the low-level math grind of trivial game logic.

2. Be wary of the advice that 'mixed code' is slow. The Lua C API is lightweight and fast. Wrapping functions for use with Lua is, at worst, quite easy (and if you take a while to understand how Lua interfaces with C w.r.t. the virtual stack, etc, you will notice that it has been designed specifically to minimize call overhead), and at best, trivial (no wrapping required) and 100% as performant as native calls (thanks, LuaJIT FFI!) In most cases I find that a careful mixture of Lua and C (via the LJ FFI) is superior to pure Lua. Even vector operations, which I believe the LuaJIT manuals mention somewhere as an example where code should be kept to Lua, I have found to be faster when I execute via Lua->C calls. Ultimately, don't trust anyone or anything but your own (careful) performance measurements when it comes to pieces of code that are performance-sensitive.

3. Most small-ish games could get away just fine with game state, the core loop, input handling, etc. done entirely in Lua and running under LuaJIT. If you're building a small-ish game, consider the "move to C++ as needed" approach (lazy compilation!) Write in Lua, when you identify a clear bottleneck (and have measured it to make sure it's the culprit), move that bit to C++ and be on your way. If you're writing a big game with 1000s of complex objects with complex logic, advanced rendering, etc. then you'll benefit from more up-front designing.

Best of luck :)