Python vs. Ruby for metaprogramming [closed]

Answer 1

If you like the lisp-style code-is-data concept, but don't like the Lispy syntax, maybe Prolog would be a good choice.

Whether that qualifies as a "fun to use, modern language", I'll leave to others to judge. ;-)

Answer 2

You are describing Ruby.

• Good metaprogramming. Ability to create classes, methods, functions, etc. at runtime. Preferably, minimal distinction between code and data, Lisp style.

It's very easy to extend and modify existing primitives at runtime. In ruby everything is an object, strings, integers, even functions.

You can also construct shortcuts for syntactic sugar, for example with class_eval.

• Nice, clean, sane syntax and consistent, intuitive semantics. Basically a well thought-out, fun to use, modern language.

Ruby follows the principle of less surprise, and when comparing Ruby code vs the equivalent in other language many people consider it more "beautiful".

• Multiple paradigms. No one paradigm is right for every project, or even every small subproblem within a project.

You can follow imperative, object oriented, functional and reflective.

• An interesting language that actually affects the way one thinks about programming.

That's very subjective, but from my point of view the ability to use many paradigms at the same time allows for very interesting ideas.

I've tried Python and it doesn't fit your important points.

Answer 3

Did you try Rebol?

Answer 4

Ruby would be better than Lisp in terms of being "mainstream" (whatever that really means, but one realistic concern is how easy it would be to find answers to your questions on Lisp programming if you were to go with that.) In any case, I found Ruby very easy to pick up. In the same amount of time that I had spent first learning Python (or other languages for that matter), I was soon writing better code much more efficiently than I ever had before. That's just one person's opinion, though; take it with a grain of salt, I guess. I know much more about Ruby at this point than I do Python or Lisp, but you should know that I was a Python person for quite a while before I switched.

Lisp is definitely quite cool and worth looking into; as you said, the size of community, etc. can change quite quickly. That being said, the size itself isn't as important as the quality of the community. For example, the #ruby-lang channel is still filled with some incredibly smart people. Lisp seems to attract some really smart people too. I can't speak much about the Python community as I don't have a lot of firsthand experience, but it seems to be "too big" sometimes. (I remember people being quite rude on their IRC channel, and from what I've heard from friends that are really into Python, that seems to be the rule rather than the exception.)

Anyway, some resources that you might find useful are:

1) The Pragmatic Programmers Ruby Metaprogramming series (http://www.pragprog.com/screencasts/v-dtrubyom/the-ruby-object-model-and-metaprogramming) -- not free, but the later episodes are quite intriguing. (The code is free, if you want to download it and see what you'd be learning about.)

2) On Lisp by Paul Graham (http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisp.html). It's a little old, but it's a classic (and downloadable for free).

Answer 5

Well, if you don't like the lisp syntax perhaps assembler is the way to go. :-)

It certainly has minimal distinction between code and data, is multi-paradigm (or maybe that is no-paradigm) and it's a mind expanding (if tedious) experience both in terms of the learning and the tricks you can do.

Answer 6

Ruby is my choice after exploring Python, Smalltalk, and Ruby.